PAPA 14 Semifinals Group 2 – Spiderman

Group 2 of the Semifinals includes Robert Gagno, Jim Belsito, Josh Sharpe, and Andrei Massenkoff.


  1. May 25, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    so … much … water …

  2. Todd Williams
    May 25, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    Hey Mark/Kevin. I have a comment and decided to post it on here because from the videos I have watched Spiderman seems to have been the most egregious example of my comment (although T2 and Monster Bash as well).

    I know that the level of competition at PAPA particularly in the A division requires that the games be set up particularly hard, and a part of that is having tighter tilts. That said it seems like maybe last year they were slightly too tight. I say this as both a player and also as a spectator.

    As a player, I believe that the game of pinball involves three major skills. Trapping, shooting, and nudging. When tilts are so tight, it almost eliminates a very important element of the game of pinball. I love to see steep games, wide open outlanes, huge posts, anything to make the game harder, but when tilts are too tight one area in which the players can show there skill is removed.

    As a spectator of both live finals at PAPA and these videos, I hate to see a good player lose a ball due to super sensitive tilts. Last game of spiderman from the other group several players got multiple dangers and tilts from moves that seem rather slight. Contrast that with the PAPA 13 Finals. I just watched the final game of Creature From the Black Lagoon again yesterday. That game was set pretty hard but there were some damn good saves that really brought some excitement to the game.

    I say all this of course without seeing any of the finals from Pinburgh, so maybe this was addressed. It is also a rather minor complaint as PAPA tournaments are freaking oustanding. I also apologize if you have already heard complaints or had discussions with others about this.

    I know tilts have to be tight in high level tournaments or high level players can abuse it, but I’m sure others would agree with me in that I want to see more slap saves and shake outs and fewer tilts.

    Keep up the great work guys, love the videos.

  3. mhs
    May 25, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    Hi Todd,

    Yes, I’m aware the tilts were tight on some games at PAPA 14. I also am aware nudging is a skill.

    I’ve addressed this several times now, and I currently have a word document filled with about 25 pages of advice from 40-50 different people who attended PAPA 14 on everything from tilts to toilets. I take it all seriously and we are trying to improve with every event.

    Trust me, NO ONE wants phantom tilts, but they’re inevitable sometimes when you’re trying to walk the line of “tough but fair” and so many variables are involved. Also keep in mind you are not witnessing the amount of time the players waited between balls. In most instances in these videos, players are plunging when the tilt mechanism is still moving.

    As for the Pinburgh comparison, I see that you attended, so you can tell me if you felt things were set up well. Always seeking feedback.

  4. Todd Williams
    May 26, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    Hey thanks Mark. I had figured you get plenty of complaints and suggestions. I don’t want you to take my comments that way. I always think that you guys do a absolutely bang up job. I did think the games at Pinburgh were spot on for the most part. At least I did not have any particular issues with tilts that I recall.

    You guys obviously know more about your machines than I would, sorry to be another squeaky wheel. I also have no knowledge about how difficult it is to balance tight tilts with too much. Thanks for responding.

  5. MHS
    May 26, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    No problem Todd. It’s always a balancing act, and we (I) definitely make mistakes too. Don’t think I’m trying to absolve myself because your points are valid… they’re just also very well documented at this point.

    I hate when games don’t play fair probably only second to the player, and it drives me to improve. IMO Pinburgh was a big step in the right direction, and I think the upcoming videos will show that to be the case. PAPA 15 will continue this trend.

    Keep flipping.

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